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Bienvenue sur le Wiktionnaire, Teodor605. If you don’t speak French, click here

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Bonne continuation parmi nous !

Pamputt [Discuter] 16 août 2011 à 17:49 (UTC)

 --GaAs 30 janvier 2012 à 23:02 (UTC)

triModifier

Bonjour,

Vous aviez ajouté une traduction ici avec deux genres en paramètre, mais seul le premier est pris en compte par le modèle. Serait-il possible d'y jeter un œil ? Merci d’avance, Automatik (discussion) 8 septembre 2013 à 17:16 (UTC)

Bonsoir,
Comme je parle mieux l'anglais que le francais, je continuerai en anglais :)
Many Norwegian Bokmål nouns may be either m or f. In some languages the relevant translation templates have been modified to be able to handle this. In the English you write |m|f and the resulting text denoting gender is «m, f».
One workaround, until you are able to accomodate two genders in the same noun would be to denote the word twice. Once for each gender. Or, one could simply omit the extra gender information.
I will leave the article as it is for now. I think the best solution is to be found among those who edit the French Wiktionary the most ... Teodor605 (discussion) 8 septembre 2013 à 20:37 (UTC)
Thanks for your fast answer!
As we try to manage exactly the content of the parameters of the translation templates, I'll remove these genders, because it's not a common case, so I suppose the reader who want some information about such words will read the articles. Also, it's better to use the same language code in {{T}} and in {{trad}}(+/-/--): we accept entries in nb (category:norvégien (bokmål)) like in nn (category:norvégien (nynorsk)), next to category:norvégien (no).
Thanks for your contributions :) Automatik (discussion) 8 septembre 2013 à 21:02 (UTC)
Hello again,
I can see you have had a long discussion about the relevant translation template. I think two obvious advantages of the {{trad}} template over the {{T}} template are 1) you can copy the already translated words from another Witkionary in a big chunk and 2) you do not have to write the name of the language anywhere because it is in the template. I do the same quite often when I add translations in the Norwegian W. The Norwegian translation template accepts both trans and overs, which is the Norwegian abbrevation of the word "oversettelse" (translation). --Teodor605 (discussion) 9 septembre 2013 à 08:37 (UTC)
You're right, the T template is somewhat heavy -and not appreciated by everyone. If you’re interested, here is (maybe) an overview of the future for the translations: Wiktionnaire:Questions techniques/mars 2013#Traductions en Lua. If we change the structure of the translation’s sections like this, adding translations will be simplified by using a javascript gadget, probably. Automatik (discussion) 9 septembre 2013 à 11:25 (UTC)

SynonymesModifier

Hi,

We don't put the language code for the -syn- section [1], because it doesn't categorize. Regards, Automatik (discussion) 11 septembre 2013 à 20:03 (UTC)

So I noticed. But it didn't seem to do any harm, either, so I left it there in case you should decide to start categorising at some point. In which case the information would already be there :) OK? --Teodor605 (discussion) 11 septembre 2013 à 20:15 (UTC)
You’re right, it’s not a problem. Just we don’t add code when it’s not necessary, and recently we had removed the codes not useful, as you can see it on Wiktionnaire:Bot/Requêtes/Archives/2013#Ligne_de_forme. It’s easiest for a bot to manipulate data properly formatted. Automatik (discussion) 11 septembre 2013 à 20:42 (UTC)
Why adopt a different language code for the section title and the templates in this section here (and [2])? I believe we don't do this usually, it's not standard. But maybe there's an explanation? Automatik (discussion) 11 septembre 2013 à 20:09 (UTC)
You know, the two Norwegian languages are very hard to keep separated. They are almost identical but for various reasons too difficult to explain in a short message, both the English and the Swedish Wiktionaries have decided to keep them as two languages. I think the French Wikt will come to the same conclusion one day, so I did as I have learnt to do it when I am at these two other Wiktionaries. --Teodor605 (discussion) 11 septembre 2013 à 20:15 (UTC)
To be a little more precise in my reply to your second question. Maybe I was a little too quick in using a second language code for the categorisation. I saw there were no words in the nb category so I decided to keep them in the no category. After all, the words in nb and nn are very similar, so I didn't want to create a new category with only one article in it. --Teodor605 (discussion) 11 septembre 2013 à 20:20 (UTC)
If Bokmål is a language, it must have a category. If not today, tomorrow, etc. So don't worry for this. Apparently, in the Swedish Wiktionary, they use the no code for the Bokmal, and the nn code for the Nynorsk. In the English Wiktionary, they use the three language codes, like here: nn, nb and no, and they have a category for each language: en:Category:Norwegian language, en:Category:Norwegian Bokmål language and en:Category:Norwegian Nynorsk language. It is more consistent to use the same code in the same language section. Automatik (discussion) 11 septembre 2013 à 21:12 (UTC)
Initially, there were two separate Wiktionaries; one for nynorsk and one for bokmål. Just like there are two different Wikipedias in Norwegian. However, Norway is a small country and there were too few contributors on the nynorsk Wiktionary to make it a viable project. Moreover, most of the code is identical, so after a discussion the most senior contributors of the two projects decided to merge them into one. After that, we have tried as best we can two accommodate the various differences within the framework of the same project. The nynorsk Wiktionary still exists, but on the main page it says the project has now been merged into the common project.
I understand it is quite confusing that the Norwegian project treats the two languages as one whereas the English project treats them as two separate ones. We would too if we had enough contributors! My advice is that you split the two up, otherwise you will find that lots of articles are just inaccurate. Spellings vary, and so does the grammar. For example, if you conjugate a nynorsk only word with bokmål rules the article might look just fine but in reality might be very wrong.
I hope I have contributed to a somewhat better understanding of the issue. The longer you wait with treating the languages as two separate ones, the more articles will have to be rewritten. In the English project now, if you try to translate a word using the easy translation tool they are using, you will get a warning that they no longer accept the language code «no». You have to specify either «nb» or «nn». But all the translations done before that change took place will have to be put into a category of words which need attention by a native speaker. That's going to take a while to accomplish fully. --Teodor605 (discussion) 11 septembre 2013 à 21:50 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanations. I'm not sure to understand everything about the Norwegian Wiktionary.
For example, no:Kategori:Norsk is the merger of Bokmål and Nynorsk (useful when a word exists in both Bokmål and Nynorsk)? And no:Kategori:Bokmål is for words who are of the Nynorsk language, but there isn't similarly a Nynorsk category?
An other question, when I go on the Engish Wikipedia, I can see on the left, in the "Languages" tab, links to "Norsk bokmål" and to "Norsk nynorsk". And the language code for "Norsk bokmål" is w:no (and not nb) whereas the language code for "Norsk nynorsk" is w:nn. So I suppose what we found in w:no is only in Bokmål although the URL for this site is https://no.wikipedia.org (and not nb)? When we use an information from w:no, we have to consider that it's in Bokmål or that it's not determined?
Thanks by advance for your help! Automatik (discussion) 11 septembre 2013 à 23:45 (UTC)
It isn't logical, I agree. If we had had the time to plan in advance, we would have made things differently I think. --Teodor605 (discussion) 12 septembre 2013 à 15:30 (UTC)

NorvégienModifier

Bonjour,

Tu as créé l’entrée soper en norvégien et je me demande pourquoi avoir choisi cette langue (et pas nb/nn). Tu m’avais toi-même conseillé de faire ainsi il me semble, non ? — Automatik (discussion) 14 octobre 2013 à 20:28 (UTC)

Hi, I think that has to do with the greenlinks. I used the "Gadget-CreerTrad" and that is what came up. I didn't pay any attention to that. You see, initially I added a "bokmål" translation to pédé. I tried to mark it as "nb". However, if one then clicks on the "nb" in small brackets, you get to a non-existing Wiktionary. Norwegian bokmål W is "no", for the same reasons we were discussing in September. So I think we have to live with an extent of mixing of the "no" and the "nb". Sorry for that ...
On another line: I think it is impossible for now to carry out a complete nb entry. The conjugation template "no-nom" does not have a corresponding "nb-nom" and I am not sure if it's worth the trouble to make one yet. That category is empty.
BTW, I am looking for something like the Gadget-CreerTrad for the Norwegian project too. Do you know if it can be adapted? I see some other language projects have something similar, and it looks very handy. --Teodor605 (discussion) 14 octobre 2013 à 21:03 (UTC)
It’s not normal that we have to put different codes in {{trad}} and {{T}}, I’ve ever asked admins for this but I didn’t got an answer. Normally, nb code should be a redirect to no for other projects. I'll repeat myself so that this problem is resolved.
I can create a template for nb. Anyway, develop all languages ​​is one of the objectives of Wiktionary and there is no reason to delay.
It’s possible to adapt the gadget CreerTrad on Norwegian Wiktionary, sure. It just takes a little time to be able to handle it. — Automatik (discussion) 14 octobre 2013 à 21:31 (UTC)

reviewModifier

Hi Teodor,

Could you please check and have a look to this draft page Utilisateur:Unsui/Lexiconcours where I’ve tried to place two norvegian entries for renne (already corrected by Surkål) — but I am not quite sure for the norvegian nynorsk part. Thanks in advance. — Unsui Discuter 28 octobre 2013 à 22:29 (UTC)

Hi Unsuil,
Is there a particular part or definition you are unsure about? Verb or noun? It looks fine to me but my French isn't good enough to judge about all the different translations. I would have to look it up to check if renne could also mean to germinate.
Regards, --Teodor605 (discussion) 28 octobre 2013 à 22:45 (UTC)
Thanks for your answer. In fact, the nynorsk part has been duplicated from the bokmål one and I don’t know if that allows to maintain the same meanings. The following page seems to swow some differences between bokmål and nynorsk but I get some difficulties to understand quite well the different meanings. — Unsui Discuter 29 octobre 2013 à 08:45 (UTC)
I have had a look at it. There are some small differences between the NB and the NN articles. In NN the gender is f (f2 is one of several feminine types of nouns. In MB it can be both f and m. Take a look at this: no:Kategori:Bøyningsmaler for nynorsk/Substantiv. Or look at the way the have programmed in in the English project.--Teodor605 (discussion) 29 octobre 2013 à 09:44 (UTC)
Thank you for this remark. I’m going to check that asap. — Unsui Discuter 29 octobre 2013 à 09:56 (UTC)

Adding translationsModifier

Hi Teodor,

Thanks for adding translations. Note that you can add many translations at once. Just click "Ajouter" after each addition, then when you’re done, click "Enregistrer" once for all. — Automatik (discussion) 19 avril 2015 à 01:23 (UTC)

NAOBModifier

Are you sure we can use {{R:NAOB}} as a source? On the site we can read: « Det må ikke kopieres fra denne boken i strid med åndsverksloven eller avtale om kopiering inngått ». Surkål (discussion) 16 août 2018 à 19:36 (UTC)

I don't see any conflict here. Using NAOB as a source reference is not the same as copying what they have written. Or? - Teodor (dc) 17 août 2018 à 07:32 (UTC)
My bad! I confused it with another dictionary (bokmålsordbok). Sorry to have bothered you. Surkål (discussion) 17 août 2018 à 08:12 (UTC)
It's the same with that reference. Shouldn't be a problem to use bokmålsordboka as a reference. We should have a French reference template pointing to bokmålsordboka as well. However, I'm not good enough at programming that I am going to do it. - Teodor (dc) 17 août 2018 à 08:45 (UTC)
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